Pembleton enthusiasts forum - website: www.thepembleton.org.uk

We're an informal group sharing a common interest in this Citroen 2CV based car. People organise various activities with the main objective of having fun! Do look at our website for more information.
It is currently Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:08 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:41 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
ken wrote:
Tom,
original Citroen track rod end balls are only 'ovoid' when they're worn, which occurred far too soon with those produced in the 1980s.
The degree of 'centring' is linked to the amount of kingpin castor which would originally have been 15 degrees.
If the vehicle is lowered too much without the correct castor angle being restored, it's quite a task to drive a long distance on twisty roads, as we found in the early days of 24 hour racing... :roll:
Ken.



Cheers Ken, I had indeed misunderstood their role but clear now thanks.

Tom

_________________
Image
Chassis # 181
LWB Grasshopper SS
750 Guzzi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:19 am
Posts: 923
Location: Bedfordshire
MartinCartwright wrote:
Attachment:
Pembleton Front mudgueard stays.jpg
Hi Robin
I went with the stainless job from Tonny Visser (importoon@sfr.fr). However, it was pricey and I decided to 'augment' the design with a bracket at low level, as I felt - like Andy- there was not enough support to stop the ends of the mudguard from flapping about. This is a picture of the finished article which seems to work (3000 miles).


Just returning to the original topic of this thread. I contacted Tonny Visser (importoon@sfr.fr) a week or so ago and got an almost instant reply - but since then he has been somewhat uncommunicative... How have others found dealing with him?

Cheers, Robin

_________________
Robin Martin
#335 Silvermachine
Small block 750 Moto Guzzi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:23 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Lelystad - netherlands
Robin,

sent you an E-mail.

Paul


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:35 pm
Posts: 124
I found Tonny Visser OK. He took his time and quite a lot of chasing, but came up with the goods in the end.

My wheels were a first for him (Phil's bolt-on skinny wheels - which strangely project further out from the hub than Citroen wheels), so he had to work out all the dimensions from scrach, as his standard mudguard stays are for Citroen wheels.

In order to make absolutely sure there were no misunderstandings, I took many photographs and I ended up doing 1:1 scale drawings (plans and elevations) for him. My recollection is that the whole process from date of order took several months, but if your wheels are the same as mine, refer him to the job he did for me and you will save a great deal of time, and possibly money. Good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:41 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Robin et al, I have just found this. Why, because the problem has re-arisen! I had Visser stays when I used wide mudguards and 165 wheels, I cannot honestly recall how reliable they were as I soon changed to Phil's wheels but rather than re-order Visser stays, a friend offered to make some for me so I went with that option. They were designed along similar lines to Visser stays but with some changes. In practice they have been a constant source of problems really and broken many times BUT as I have now discovered, they were badly made in the first place and badly designed. There are subtle differences from the Visser design, and I think these changes have been the problem! After the last breakage last weekend I need to get the car back on the road and I have today sent an email to Tony Visser with a view to ordering some genuine Visser stays and I will now try them properly. My instincts tell me that stainless is the wrong material however I do not have time on my side (or sufficient welding skills) but, in the longer term, I intend to try a mild steel solution.

_________________
Image
Chassis # 181
LWB Grasshopper SS
750 Guzzi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:37 am
Posts: 1742
Location: North Norfolk
Hi Tom,
In all, a "normal" Pembleton situation.

In the 1st year of road use, ALL of my PMC fixed guard struts failed - without exception, all at the end of a weld bead, made on cold, thinwall tubing. Repairing with tapering, seam welded "gussets", the struts have survived some 10 years, with only minor fractures appearing in the ali guards themselves (sorted with support plates riveted and glued).

The key to "turn-with-the-wheel-guards" is obviously similar - successful support relies on an understanding of any problems, the selection and quality of materials, then the mechanical completion. Anything I've had made up in A4 stainless, has been done by a specialist in motorcycle, scrambles bike accessories (foot pegs/extension brackets etc) using A4 stainless and TIG.
As I've found, if a bracket doesn't vibrate or spring, fatigue fracture is not an issue. The rear lamps/tailpipe support brackets are an example of what I'm talking about.


Attachments:
HPIM5761.JPG
HPIM5761.JPG [ 987.79 KiB | Viewed 693 times ]

_________________
It's a 2CV Jim, but not as we know it.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Northampton
Another key is to get a good clamping force at the mount.

If you can, find some M7 partially threaded hi tensile bolts (40mm) and use schnorr or Nordlok washers. With the brackets seeing vibrational forces, the extra meat in the shaft of the bolt makes a big difference.

M7 isn't THAT uncommon, it is still widely used in Cosworth engineered products.

_________________
If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is!

Guzzi 750 Supersport 316 - on the road
Guzzi 750 LWB supersport 413 - in build


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:41 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
slomax wrote:
Another key is to get a good clamping force at the mount.

If you can, find some M7 partially threaded hi tensile bolts (40mm) and use schnorr or Nordlok washers. With the brackets seeing vibrational forces, the extra meat in the shaft of the bolt makes a big difference.

M7 isn't THAT uncommon, it is still widely used in Cosworth engineered products.

Mine are m8 metric fine and have remained torqued.

Tom

_________________
Image
Chassis # 181
LWB Grasshopper SS
750 Guzzi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:21 am
Posts: 17
Hi all
I had fractures in my original PMC stays, which I beefed up with gussets to spread the welding area. I am now making some new turning stays to match the bolt on wheels using my son's blacksmithing skills to turn the single tube into a thin strap to mount the mudguard. I hope it works, I will take some pics and send it into ePAG.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wing Stay
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:32 pm
Posts: 263
Location: ayr
Hi,
In some 10 years of running the trike I have only had one failure. It was caused by a vibration that appeared with a change of tyre. I reinforced the bracket with a cross brace and the tyres have now gone to the tip. All now.
My brackets fix through the steering arm screws and are made of mild steel flat and 1/4 inch heavy wall BS 1387 tube, it can be hard to get as everyone is metric( not strictly true as the continent still use imperial steel tube) you just have to persevere with the merchants. Its mainly used by the industrial Heating engineers.
Having now changed to Longstone tyres I am currently using strips of Plastic oil drums as mudguards, why spend time in the garage when the sun is out.
Bill

_________________
home build and designed, trike with 2CV engine and transmission. Now fitted with Moto Guzzi 1064cc
Built approx. 10 years ago


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group