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 Post subject: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Hi All,

I like to be fully informed before going ahead and "doing stuff", especially when it is such a big design impact as the rear lighting. Some of the statements for this seem a little fuzzy at best.

under Annex 6 - Obligatory Lighting

MSVA Test wrote:
1) Rear position red lights

Min height 250mm
Max height 1500mm
Vehicles >1300mm wide must be fitted with 2 position lamps

Vehicles with a single rear wheel, the lamps can be fitted within the rear half of the vehicle

2) Rear indicator Amber lights

Min height 350mm
Max height 1500mm
Min 500mm distance between illuminating surfaces

Vehicles with a single rear wheel,the lamps can be fitted within the rear half of the vehicle

3) Rear Stop lights Red

Min height 250mm
Max height 1500mm
Vehicles >1300mm wide must be fitted with 2 stop lamps

Vehicles with a single rear wheel the lamps can be fitted within the rear half of the vehicle


By my reckoning, this means that there are no width limits/restrictions for tail markers/stop lamps, so long as there are two. The only width restriction is that rear indicators have to be a minimum of 500mm apart edge-edge of lens.

What does "within the rear half of the vehicle" mean?

My understanding of this is that if you took the overall length of the vehicle, and halved it, then the lights have to be within this measurement from the rear....

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 Post subject: Re: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Location: N.Yorks
"within the rear half of the vehicle " means aft of the centreline, halfway along the length of the car.
My understanding was that the 500 separation applies to the indicators ans lights but perhaps I misread that. I made up temporary lights with the indicator over the
position/brake lights as the indicators were only 480 apart in the mountings I wanted....

Was pulled up on the rear numberplate light which showed red to the rear :" two rear position red lights" as it is a motorcycle stop/tail but was allowed to mask the lens at the test. It is used as a fog lamp now.


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 Post subject: Re: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:04 pm 
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Location: Northampton
Thanks Duncan - My only thought is that from the angle in your first image, you couldn't see your RH indicator. I always assumed that you needed to see the rear indicators if you are behind the vehicle (regardless of angle). I believe this is the rule for production cars.

Another thing i need to read a bit more in detail is the Mirror section. To me it makes very little sense on first reading - yet i know all the ins and outs for the ECE-R46 regs (indirect rear vision) that production cars have to meet (mirrors and camera systems). The regs for production cars is longer than the whole MSVA test!

I'm not complaining as it means i can have what i want (similar to your solution), but from a vehicle design perspective it does seem odd!

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 Post subject: Re: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:33 pm 
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Don't the indicators have to be 600 min between illuminated faces and the side lights 500 min so if it's one unit either side 600 between the two
Could be wrong and have been before


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 Post subject: Re: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:44 pm 
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notsmartcar wrote:
Don't the indicators have to be 600 min between illuminated faces and the side lights 500 min so if it's one unit either side 600 between the two
Could be wrong and have been before

For a heavy quad, the rear markers/stop lights have to be >600mm apart and indicators >500mm apart, but for vehicles with a single rear wheel, only the indicators have this dimension limitation.

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 Post subject: Re: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Location: N.Yorks
I don't think you can see the RH indicator from the LHS of a new Morgan trike? Or anything with a boat/beetle tail? Lomax?
The way round the mirrors problem is to use the mirrors from the donor car. It may require some bending and manufacture of bracketry. Only make holes in the scuttle which you can use again for aero or Vee screens.
The field of vision required is defined in the manual but easier to comply with at the test than might be thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Posts: 500
I think youre mistaken about the rear indicators being seen from the side - its the front youre thinking of
Logically the people who need to see your rear indicator are thise following you

Lights make sense to me, if you mount them as pg intended on the spare wheel on a board the heightband seperation all work, the only thing i had to do was a 'bottom mount' number plate light or i was showing a white light to the rear due to the slope of the mounting

As regards mirrors i was advised by the tester that youll never pass with a 'middle' mounted mirror but to mount two just in front of the driver each side and buy sva compliant ones.
I bought a pair and screwed/tapped them into the frame hoop through the body.
Simple rule of thumb is no rear blind spots and a good amount of 'crossover' about 20 foot behind the car

Hope that helps

Dont forget this is only to pass the test, you can do something more to your choice after!

Colin


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 Post subject: Re: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Niall, I am pretty sure you are correct. On my MSVA it was queried but the examiner went away to consult and passed it, it was the original Phil design that others have been failed on but the key issue is the indicator spacing, not the rear lights.
And halfway means halfway in my book :-)

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:05 pm 
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Thanks for the input chaps, all very helpful!

If I wanted a trailer-board at the rear of my vehicle, I'd buy a trailer :lol:

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If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is!

2cv powered Supersport 316

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 Post subject: Re: Rear Lights... Again
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:09 pm 
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Posts: 500
Ah but my rear light board doubles as a trailer board when towing in on an A frame - the wiring is connected by a trailer socket and rear number plate flips over toshow towing car number!

So im quite happy to have this

Colin

Ps no i know you can only use an A frame for recovery - apparently


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